Next Stop: Kuala Lumpur

Speaker 1 0:00

I must say, I really was quite touched by your story, Good for Nothing. I thought it was a beautiful story. It really pulled on the heartstrings. But I've got to ask, it felt really true. You know, it rang true and authentic. I'm gonna ask, was it a true story? My name's Brendan O'Sullivan, a Toastmaster from Brisbane, Australia. Welcome to my Toastmasters World Tour podcast. Please join me as I travel virtually around the

Selamat Datang ke Rasa Sayang - My 9-year-old Penang story

Speaker 1 0:40

world and chat to Toastmasters from different countries and all walks of life. Let's explore. Originally from Penang, I chat to Gurmeet Singh, our second place finisher at the World Championship of Public Speaking, to see what we can learn from his journey from being told he was good for nothing to the world stage. Selamat Datang ke Rasa Sayang Gurmeet. That's nice. Oh, hang on. Old habits died hard. I should have said Selamat tengah hari. Oh let me explain. As a nine-year-old,

Meet Gurmeet Singh - Runner-up, World Championship of Public Speaking

Speaker 1 2:02

I was on a family holiday in Penang. Oh, that's my hometown. Yeah. And while my siblings all did the normal resort stuff, they swam in the pool and played table tennis. I hung out with the doorman of this resort, you know, Rasa Sayang, and he'd taught me how to welcome the guests in Malay, which was, as I said, Selamat Datang ke Rasa Sayang. Rasa Sayang was the name of the of the resort. Yep. Uh, and helped them with all their luggage. And I had an absolute ripper of a time. So I think that probably sparked my interest in languages and culture, you know, more than anything. The most important thing is to welcome you to the show. Thank you so much for the honor of coming on. I'm so happy that you've joined me. Honest maiden. Thank you so much. And a huge congratulations for coming second place at the World Championship of Public Speaking. That's enormous. Yeah. After 16 years. How does it make you feel?

The surreal feeling a week after

Speaker 3 3:02

Still doesn't feel real a week later, and I'm still getting messages, comments, you know, uh on the the YouTube, on LinkedIn, on Facebook, and Instagram, many other places. So it still feels like, wait a minute, I actually did it?

Speaker 1 3:21

Yeah. A bit surreal, I guess. Yeah, yeah. You've got your birthday coming up, I noticed. So it felt like an early birthday present.

Speaker 3 3:31

Yes. A week uh two weeks before my birthday, on the 8th of September. Three weeks, actually.

Speaker 1 3:38

Well, happy birthday. Thank you so much. I must say, I really was quite touched by your story, Good for Nothing. I thought it was a beautiful story. It really pulled on the heartstrings. But I've got to ask, it felt really true. You know, it rang true and authentic. I've got to ask, was it a true story?

Speaker 3 3:58

Yep.

Was Good for Nothing a true story?

Speaker 3 3:59

For my speeches, uh, I do not know about other Toastmasters and other competitors. And I now this is not an indicator of a criticism or something. But for me, if I want to present something, I want to speak on something, I try to make it as accurate as possible. So you have about 95% of the speech being true. Meaning the the three key stories about my friend, uh my wife, and my grandfather, uh they're all completely true. It's the ending that I changed it a little bit based on my coach.

Speaker 1 4:37

But it's true. So about 5% artistic license, but basically the whole, you know, the gist of it all and you know, is entirely true. Yep. I mean, I must say that I also, when I in my speeches, which are not anywhere near your level, but I go for true stories as well, mainly because I'm too lazy to rehearse and it's easier to remember if they're much easier to remember if they're true. But also it gives it that, you know, it's easier to be authentic then and so maybe maybe convey the feelings that you had, which I think you certainly did a it was it like a masterclass in not only the story, but how you delivered it in terms of you know, you could see that how that impacted you, the expressions on your face, and you know, and we all felt for you. So we're all sort of riding that journey because I think most of us have probably been, maybe not to the degree you have been, but have felt some of those feelings at some point.

Speaker 3 5:33

Yeah,

Don't tear up on stage

Speaker 3 5:34

it was true. And you know, I had to tell myself, don't tear up. You know, don't break down during the stitch.

My school strap story

Speaker 1 5:42

Yeah. I can imagine that because it is true. It touches on those old emotions, and so that would be the challenge. Whereas it's probably, if it was a made-up story, it's probably the opposite where you're trying to bring on some crocodile tears. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly as the an 11-year-old in primary school. You can imagine what I used to get in trouble for at school talking too much. But I think our whole class was talking. I just happened to be the kid down the back that was that was easy to nab when the teacher came out of the classroom. A different teacher that I didn't know came out and grabbed me and pulled me in front of his classroom, and he was a stocky tennis teacher on the side and stood on a chair so that he could get extra purchase as he leapt off the chair. I kid you not, to give the strap even harder onto my outstretched hand. Oh no. So I wasn't told I was good for nothing, but I certainly felt good for nothing. I certainly felt like, you know, that I was being shamed in front of a class I didn't know. Yep. Oh, that's sad. The other thing that made me think of with your story have you ever heard of uh an Australian psychologist called Steve Biddlef?

Speaker 3 6:54

I've heard of the name, but I don't uh I've not read about him.

Steve Biddulph & The Secret of Happy Children

Speaker 1 6:59

Sure, he's uh an Australian psychologist who wrote a book in 1984 called The Secret of Happy Children. Okay. And it has been translated into multiple languages, but I'll just read you something out which I think might resonate with you. Okay. This is a quote from his book. Adults know everything. They can even read your mind. Such are the thoughts of a child. So when a child is told you're clumsy, he or she becomes nervous and is clumsy. The child told you're a pest feels the rejection, becomes desperate for reassurance, and so does pester. The child told you're an idiot may violently disagree on the outside, but inside can only sadly agree. You're the adult, so you must be right. He calls them you messages. They work at both the conscious and unconscious levels. And he in his work he found children will describe themselves as I'm a bad kid, I'm a nuisance, because they internalize what adults tell them they are. Does this ring true for you?

"Here comes the good for nothings"

Speaker 3 8:08

Yeah, especially in school. So uh, you know, I it when that teacher started calling me, you know, every time she saw me uh in class, uh, walking into class in the morning, she used to say, uh, here comes the good for nothings. You know. So I started believing her, you know. Yeah, I'm not good in studies, I'm not good at this, I'm not good at that. What she says is true, uh, it makes sense. But I'm thankful I was not alone in that journey during school. You know, at least I had another friend who she hated as equally as me.

Speaker 1 8:45

Sam, you bonded over that.

Speaker 2 8:49

Console each other. Yeah.

Speaker 1 8:53

But I believed them. Yeah. The opposite is the power of suggestion, isn't it? And you know, look, I'm a big kid, so if this works on kids, I think it also applies to me. So go me, could you please do me a favor? As this works for positive things, okay, and it works best. This is what I'm gonna request would work best coming from someone who has succeeded on the world stage. Okay, could you please tell me with conviction, Brendan, Brendan, you are world champion material. Sure.

Positive mantra: You ARE World Champion material

Speaker 3 9:27

We'll be happy to. Brendan, you are world champion material. You can do it. Let's get a mantra going.

The bus story & power of encouragement

Speaker 1 9:40

It just reminds me there's been a story, a similar story going on the rounds on both LinkedIn and Facebook about a kid on a bus. Have you seen that one where the kid is crying on the bus, the bus driver stops to see what's going on. Okay. And the kid says, I'm an idiot. And he goes, Well, why are you an idiot? He goes, Because all the kids on the bus are saying I'm an idiot. He goes, Well, I don't think you're an idiot, I think you're smart. And then all the kids saying, Yeah, I'm smart too. And then it turns the whole thing around to be positive. So once again, kids are very suggestible, and because, you know, they're of course adults should know better. So I think it behoves us as adults to be very careful about what we say to kids and try and bring it the best in them. And I must say, this is one thing I love about Toastmasters, we're all very encouraging and try and bring it the best in each other. Have you found that?

Breakup, chef job, dragged to Toastmasters

Speaker 3 10:27

Yeah, definitely. I mean, even when uh after my breakup with my uh girlfriend, I fell into like a depressive state, you know. So not although I didn't mention this in my speech, I actually left my job. Uh my first job was uh as a chef. So I left that, and then the breakup happened. So it felt like I was in the wilderness, not knowing what to do, which direction to take my life in. You know, at the same time, I was so shy, timid, unable to express my thoughts. And then my brother suddenly dragged me to Toastmasters, younger brother, in fact. And he's like, you know, this will help you. You try it, try it, try it.

Speaker 2 11:11

Yeah.

Speaker 3 11:12

So I I went for it. First meeting, I did a table topics, I totally bombed. In a sense, I forgot my, you know, what I wanted to say after about 30 seconds. And wait a minute, people are clapping for me. Did they release happy gas in this room or something? Why are they so encouraging, you know? Happy gas life. So after two weeks, I actually joined the club and it changed my life, honestly speaking.

Speaker 1 11:43

Awesome. So I was gonna say, look, you've come second on the world championship. You can't possibly be feeling like you're good for nothing now, can you? Nope. At what point did you stop believing you were good for nothing and how did that come about?

When did you stop believing you were good for nothing?

Speaker 3 11:58

I believe uh where I stopped believing that I was good for nothing was when I uh before I joined Toastmasters, or rather, eventually after sorry, not before, after I joined Toastmasters, about a year into it, um, and eventually that that that uh I was good for someone was really solidified after four years in Toastmasters, so 2014, where I actually met my first uh mentor uh by the name of Mervin Sinaga. Just to let you know, uh Brendan, I used to compare myself with my brother. He was a tremendous, and he's still a tremendous speaker, but he doesn't he's no longer a Toastmaster. So I used to compare myself all the time. And, you know, in that comparison, even though Toastmasters was giving you a lot of positive vibes, people were encouraging, that words of, you know, you're not good, you're not good, you're not good from your teacher keeps coming back. Yeah. Because I kept losing to my brother all the time in contest. Yeah. And uh eventually my mentor told me, you know, who cares about your brother, focus on yourself. Be a better version of yourself. Uh so if you deliver a good speech today, aim to do better tomorrow. So to answer your question, I really started believing that I was good for something and someone in 2014 onwards. It felt like a life shift. Yeah.

Speaker 1 13:28

So you must have joined in about 2010, did you? Yep, correct. So four years into it. Wow,

Vancouver 2017 - Food poisoning & ego

Speaker 1 13:34

okay.

Speaker 3 13:34

Have you been to the world stage before? Yep. I have been in the world stage in 2017, but I did not make it through the semifinals.

Speaker 1 13:45

Okay. Out of that time.

Speaker 3 13:49

To be honest, not so good. Because I land it was Vancouver as well, uh, surprisingly.

Speaker 2 13:55

Ah, okay.

Speaker 3 13:56

Yeah, so um four days before the contest, I got bad food poisoning. Oh no. I almost didn't make it to the contest, barely made it to the contest. You know, it took a lot of medication to just ensure I stand up on stage and deliver that speech. Uh so it was a really fun experience, but a bit sad that uh I didn't make it through. Yeah, but it didn't uh unlike my uh my past self, where I used to, you know, beat myself up when I didn't make it through, uh, I was quite determined, you know. Eventually I'll get to the finals. I just need to wait and persevere and always try to aim to be better. Sure. So that was 2017.

Speaker 1 14:45

So being in Vancouver again, it must have been a sense of deja vu. Oh yeah. Did you learn anything from Vancouver the first time round? I mean, I'm thinking just for starters, were you more careful about what you ate leading up to the competition? I love chicken and rice only.

Speaker 3 15:06

This time I was very strict on what I ate. No drinking, no weird stuff, nothing.

Speaker 1 15:15

What else did you learn from Vancouver the first time that helped you with this shot at Vancouver?

Speaker 3 15:20

So

Biggest lesson - Humble yourself & get help

Speaker 3 15:21

I think the biggest, uh, most significant learning was uh I don't know everything. Uh especially at this stage, I need help. There are gaps in the speech that I might not see, you know, logical gaps in language, gaps in, you know, using words that would be more aha to the audience. So in 2017, I had opportunities to seek help from former champions, from club members, from my mentor as well, uh Mervin. But I went into the mode like, yeah, I've got there, I'm great, I'm awesome. A little bit of an ego trip over there.

Speaker 1 16:00

We need to bring back your school teacher, though. So bring it down, pig.

Speaker 3 16:06

Yeah. So this time uh I actually reached out to a lot of people uh for help. So like my club member uh Chen Chun was really helpful for the district speech and the semifinal speech. And then I reached out to Verity Price as well. The 2021 uh actually sent me a message, and then we had a call, 15-minute call, and I realized, hey, this is a person that can really help me out. Yeah, I better pay for her services and get her help. So I humbled myself. That's the biggest learning, humble myself. I don't know everything. I better get help from people. And that's what I did. How did you approach this differently apart from getting the help from your mentors? So, what I did uh this time with regards to the world stage was to not take it too seriously that I, what's the word? Uh, I overwhelmed myself. So I'll just give you some context. In 2017, uh while I was suffering from that food poisoning, right? What what I also did was, you know, I just want to lock myself in the room, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. And it gave myself unneeded pressure, I feel. You know, the over preparation, over-practicing. So this time, I brought my wife, my son, mother-in-law came as well. Wonderful. We visited Vancouver, you know, had a great time. You know, so I told myself, while the contest is important, I want to have fun. I don't want to be too pressured in terms of, you know, uh winning and uh getting a trophy. I just want to have fun in this place, this beautiful place, and enjoy it with important people. So that's what I did differently.

Having fun on stage

Speaker 1 17:58

This reminds me very much of something Louisa Moldalvo, the 2024 champion, told me, which was that it was a turning point for her when someone told her that it didn't look like she was having fun and she needed to enjoy it more. And I think there's that transference. If you're having fun, I think the audience is having fun, or at least that they're with you, they're not stressing if you're looking stressed. Yep. I know the result, but tell me about the actual semifinals and finals, how that went. Were there any hiccups?

Speaker 3 18:29

Uh there

Semifinal hiccup - Forgetting Angelina's name

Speaker 3 18:30

was a minor hiccup. So uh for the semifinal speech, it's supposed to the speech is supposed to start as, you know, uh it was 2017. My Chinese girlfriend Angelina and I were walking into a large house. But as I was speaking, I forgot her name. I went, uh, it was 2017, my Chinese girlfriend and I walking into a large house. Her name's Angelina, by the way. So I had lived on the spot. And in my mind, I'm like going, oh my god, why did you forget that her name of all things? And was that her real name? Or you made her. It's a real name. Yeah.

Speaker 1 19:13

And is she an ex-girlfriend?

Speaker 3 19:15

No, no, uh, current wife. She said back. Oh, I can't watch. Yeah, a current and only wife.

Speaker 1 19:22

I mean, I think you've got to explain to her, you're on the world stage. It can be overwhelming, and so it's a forgivable error. You're on the world stage. You delivered your speech. Were you happy with how you delivered it?

Speaker 3 19:35

Here's one problem I think I need to get better at. I'm very hyper-critical of myself. So, although uh, you know, I got through the semifinals and people were saying, you know, I really enjoyed it, I felt it. All I had in my mind is like, why did I look that way? Why did I say it this way? Why did I forget my wife's name? You know? Uh why did this happen? Why did that happen? So, just to give you some context, 2017, we were not married yet. That's why I called her girlfriend at that time.

Speaker 1 20:07

Your final speech, you were happy with how that went?

Speaker 3 20:09

Oh,

Final - Following World Champion Dirceu da Silva

Speaker 3 20:10

yeah, very happy. Uh, I all I told myself, you know, as I'm at a backstage and DCU is just done with his speech, I'm like, wow, that is a really good speech. Oh no, I'm next. Who was that? Who went before? Uh D Siou, the uh the world champion. Oh, Didi, yeah. Yeah, Didi went first uh before me. And he, you know, the the cliffhanger, the wonderful speech, the stories, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm next. So I told myself, you know, he did a damn good job. But focus on giving the best version of the speech that you wanted to deliver today. So I I had to tell myself, you know, self-talk, deliver the best, deliver the best, you know, speech that you can be proud of. So I'm really happy with the how it turned out on the big stage. Sure.

Speaker 1 21:06

So you heard his speech. Did you hear all of the speeches? Yep. Yeah. And is there an option, if you find that distracting, is there an option of somehow avoiding hearing the other speeches?

Speaker 3 21:16

Yeah, so there is a uh we can go backstage and there's a washroom over there. You can probably hide yourself in there if you don't want to hear the speeches.

Speaker 1 21:27

And did all the other contestants also sit in on all the other speeches?

Speaker 3 21:31

I think most of them did, but we were in and out of the washroom, you know, before we turn.

Feeling the audience connection

Speaker 1 21:37

So you've delivered a very heartfelt story and speech. Yep. Which I think would connect with the audience a lot. Did you feel the connection from the audience? Yeah.

Speaker 3 21:46

Uh in fact, I was surprised of how much how connected it was. You know, the laughs, the oh, oh my God, you know. There were certain parts that I didn't expect last. So the Rs and O's. So w when it came out from the audience, I was like, hey, they're really going through this journey with me, no?

Speaker 1 22:08

And it's nice to see. Must be a good feeling, yeah. Yeah. And then you got announced as second place. Must have been over the moon with that.

Announced as 2nd place - Over the moon

Speaker 3 22:20

Yeah, so if you look at the video of me being announced, right? I was sitting there for a few seconds, like, but did he just call me? Did that just happen?

Speaker 2 22:33

Yeah, surreal, another surreal feeling.

Speaker 1 22:36

It's not something that happens every day, is it? Yeah. And then tell me about the aftermath. The immediate aftermath at the convention. We're sort of mobbed by fans.

Speaker 3 22:45

Oh,

Mobbed by fans & security escort

Speaker 3 22:46

yeah. But before that, we had to have a press uh conference, you know, where they ask us a bunch of questions. So I've never had this experience where I'm escorted by security, you know, like a president being escorted by Secret Service. So we had a bunch of helping ends Toastmasters. And we used the back entrance through a side door to go out to a studio area, to a room for us for the interview. And it felt it I don't know why, the feeling was really nice. Did it make you feel vulnerable at all?

Speaker 1 23:26

Like feeling like you had to have security almost?

Speaker 3 23:28

No, no, no. I I I was fine. I I mean I know Toastmasters are very respectful people. Yes. Yeah. So once that was done, and when I came down the stairs, uh I was mobbed for about an hour plus, taking pictures, uh, people telling me and uh Didi and uh Aaron as well, you know, how much they loved our speeches. Uh-huh. So it it was nice to see people, you know, asking uh advice, asking for opinions, you know, sharing what their thoughts were, and to hear how the speeches uh actually connected with them. The next day we had that photo, uh the sharing session with the champions.

Speaker 2 24:10

Okay.

Speaker 3 24:11

Yeah. So I've never smiled for almost three hours. My cheeks burnt up at the end of that.

Speaker 2 24:17

They gotta work out.

Speaker 1 24:18

Yeah. I should cheat. You've been asked a lot of questions since, I guess. So I should cheat and ask what's the best question you've been asked.

Best question - Was 2nd a win or loss?

Speaker 3 24:28

Um, there was one. Did the second place feel like a win or a loss? Yeah, so for me, it was a win. You know, obviously, yeah. If you ask me, would you prefer second place or first place? The answer's obvious, right? I want to win the thing, but it's like an indication of how far I've come. Sure. From the past me and the current me, you know. So I I look at it as a win. That was the best question I got, actually.

Speaker 1 25:00

Yes, yeah, sure. And I must say, I guess if someone's told you that you're good for nothing, the contrast to go from believing that you're good for nothing to being second in the world in the world stage, yeah. Yep, exactly. Yeah, so it must feel ecstatic. Any questions that you found you didn't appreciate?

Speaker 3 25:26

Oh, that's

Worst feedback - "I found it boring"

Speaker 3 25:27

a nice question. Oh yeah, I I got one where uh someone said uh along the lines, I think he wrote it in the YouTube video as well. Uh honestly, I found it boring. Your speech, I found it boring. Uh what what would you have done differently? To make it more interesting for me. God. So it's it's fine, totally fine. You know, no I I don't have the expectation that everyone needs to like my speech. Sure. So my my answer to him was I wouldn't have done anything different. Yeah. But thank you for your feedback. I told him, you know, thank you so much for the feedback. Uh take it into consideration. And please feel free to let me know which parts you found boring, which areas I could tweak. But for me, I wouldn't have done anything differently because I was proud of the fact that was the best version of that speech.

Speaker 1 26:28

Is there any advice you'd have for public speakers in general? Um I actually have two.

Advice - Do it first, stop comparing

Speaker 3 26:36

Uh number one do it first, worry later. So, for example, you know, I I get got a lot of uh comments or I'm not funny, I I don't know if I'm good, you know. And my speech doesn't resonate with people. I don't think I'm I can be as good as you, you know. So I told them, look, first things first, do it first. Grow a thick skin. Tell yourself it's okay to bomb sometimes. But more importantly, uh stop comparing yourself with other uh speakers. We are all at our own journey, you know. Like I told you in the beginning, uh I compared myself with my brother all the time. And unfortunately, I got comments from some Toastmasters, not my club members, thankfully. Uh comments like, you know, you're good. But your brother's better. This is a good speech, yeah. This is a good speech. But my area of improvement is can you add a bit of humor just like your brother? You know. So uh until I met that mentor of mine, uh Mervin, and what he told me is, you know, who cares about your brother? If you deliver a good speech today, tomorrow's speech aim to do better than today's speech. So that's my message to uh public speakers. You know, once you deliver uh, you know, a speech or a keynote address, you know, or speak in front of the public, take solace, give give yourself time to be, you know, critical of yourself and take uh solace of the fact that you did it. But tomorrow aim to do better than today. That that's how I improve myself. Because uh, to be honest, in 2014 I was quite stuck, you know, in terms of growth because I kept comparing myself with others. Why can't I be better than uh I wish I was like this, I wish I was that, I wish I had this skills. So just compete with yourself, be a better version of yourself tomorrow. That's my message.

Speaker 1 28:51

Fabulous advice. I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 3 28:53

Is there

Will he compete again? Break in 2027, back in 2028

Speaker 3 28:54

anything else you'd like to add today? Um, no, I I just want to mention that I'm really thankful, uh, Brendan, for this uh opportunity for this podcast. And uh maybe to answer a question, you know. A lot of them are asking me, uh I've got you have gotten second place. Are you gonna compete again? I meant to ask that actually, yeah. So the answer is for the next year, 2027. Now I'll be taking a break. Uh when I when I say taking a break, I'm not taking a break from Toastmasters. I'm not taking a break of building a speech. I'm just taking a break from competing. So 2028 is where I will be back. Uh obviously, I'll be engaging with Mariti once again, you know, wonderful coach of mine. Uh so I will be back, like Arnold Schwarzenegger said. But not next year. But not next year. I think. I'll be back.

Speaker 1 29:54

Oh well, I look forward to seeing you again. Yeah. Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure and such an honour. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 30:01

Thank you so much, Brendan. Really appreciate the opportunity for this.

Speaker 1 30:09

Thanks

Contact the show

Speaker 1 30:10

for listening to today's show. One of the key elements of Toastmasters is evaluations. This is how we grow and improve, both by encouraging comments for things we got right and points for improvement. We all learn and benefit from these evaluations, not just the person being evaluated. So any feedback in the comments is greatly appreciated. If you have a Toastmaster story you'd like to share, or would like to be on the show, I'd love to hear from you. You can reach me at Toastmasters World Tour at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening.