Cold Open: Vulnerable together

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I just didn't realise you're sort of part of a mutual group of people that are vulnerable together. And that feels pretty amazing. The only other time I've kind of felt it was I accidentally did a half marathon because my son asked me and he kindly put my name on my shirt, which meant as I was running past everyone yelled out, OJ's sensational. Which at the time I thought, oh god, I hate that everyone knows my name. And then over time I kind of got very used to it, you know, like, yeah, go, James, you know. So it's kind of like that in a way. Everyone's in it together. And I had no idea that it would feel like that.

Welcome to Brisbane, Australia

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Hi, my name's Brendan O'Sullivan, a Toastmaster from Brisbane, Australia. Welcome to my Toastmasters World Tour podcast. Please join me as I travel virtually around the world and chat to Toastmasters from different countries and all walks of life. Let's explore. This episode, we're in my hometown, Brisbane, Australia, home to three annual events. The ECA, our Agricultural Fair, River Fire, our huge fireworks and fighter jet display, and State of Origin Rugby League. I chat to my first guest, James Caldwell, who did end up joining Toastmasters to find out how his initial impressions compared to his expectations. Hi James, welcome back to the show. Hello. Good to talk to you again, Brendan. You were my very first podcast guest back in January this year, so it's wonderful to have you back. At that stage, you were contemplating joining Toastmasters. I learned recently you did end up joining a club. Which club did you join, and how did that come about?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah,

Why Bulimba? The yacht club on the river

SPEAKER_01 2:03

uh, good question. I joined the club, it's called Balimba, and it's for those people that are not in Brisbane, it's an inner city suburb, basically uh, you know, uh two or three kilometres out from the city. And uh I live in a similar location. I live at Kooperu, so it's only 10 minutes down the road, and I chose it because of its location. The club is in an old building that is a yacht club, but it's not like the yacht clubs that we know, which are all modern and drinking, and it's purely its function is uh the Balimba Yacht Squadron. And so I just kind of think it's pretty cool. It's right on the river, it's a beautiful old building, and so that's why I went there initially, and when I got there, I suppose I didn't know what to expect at all. And it was a diverse range of um young men and women and some older men, um, probably equal in numbers, and uh from a lot of different nationalities, and they were really, really friendly. And so I thought I went once, and then they have been on the a growth trajectory, and they said, Oh, look, James, are you interested? And I said, Yeah, yeah, I am. So, yeah, I joined. That was probably around February, and then I went to a couple, and then I things got a bit busy. I had an uh trip overseas in April, and then uh I got back in sort of May. By that stage, another three or four new people had joined, but that's how it came about.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Did

Did you try other clubs?

SPEAKER_02 4:01

you try any other clubs before you signed up with Bulimba?

SPEAKER_01 4:04

No, I didn't. I was sort of like uh, you know, I I I don't know why I didn't. I just really liked the feel of it straight away. You know, because I, you know, for me to get the most out of this experience, you know, you kind of want it to be a balance between friendly but not familiar. Does that make sense? They had very good structure to their night. They were very respectful to each other. And the feedback that they gave speakers, I thought it was, it was just, it just felt very comfortable. And so therefore, I just thought, well, you know, I'm gonna just keep going here. And that's what I did.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Initially, it was sounding to me like a fabulous location and a yacht club to boot, and it was proximal, so that you were gonna go there even if they were no good. The people were no good. Yeah. So and so they they were no good, and you went anyhow?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

No,

A very multicultural club

SPEAKER_01 5:05

no, not at all. They look the other thing is, as you know, Brennan, Brisbane's not as multicultural as some of our other big cities around Australia. And I found this particular club very multicultural. And I liked it from that perspective too. It was, yeah, so you know, there's some African, uh, some it's probably three or four sort of South African heritage kind of people. Some South American people, some European people. Yeah, so it's a very eclectic group. And I so I liked it.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Back in

Preconceived notions and fisticuffs

SPEAKER_02 5:46

our first podcast chat, I explored your preconceived notions of what you thought Toastmasters would be like if you did join. At the time you thought it would be pretty welcoming as you hadn't read about it going off kilter and ending in fisticuffs. But of course, you know, this would be bad press, and maybe Toastmasters is good with cover-ups. Sounds like it was initially welcoming, but did you end up being involved in a few fisticuffs in Toastmasters? And if so, what was that over? You didn't get the speaker of the night, or what triggered you?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Yeah, look, look, after a lot of covering up, look, I can't know. There is no cover-up, I'm afraid.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Maybe there was no fisticuffs because look, I know you as a gentle giant, but to the uninitiated, you're a big guy, you're tall and strong, so pretty intimidating. Do you think if you were smaller, there would have been some fisticuffs?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Uh yeah, no, no, no, no, yeah, no, no, probably not, but not no. I look, I think silently I suppose I always watch out for the smaller ones because they're the ones that have done karate or jujitsu or something. So, you know. The bigger ones are more likely not to be as as scared of. So um, yeah, so this group I show a lot of respect to because there's no big big giants. Okay, very good.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

What has been pretty much about what you expected before you joined, and what has been different to your expectations?

What I expected vs reality: learning by accident

SPEAKER_01 7:11

The different to what I expected is nearly everything, probably, is the best way to answer that. There's uh a structure that obviously has developed over a long period of time that really enables learning in a really supportive the learning happens subtly, not uh objectively. There's the same messages that are picked up again and again and again. The learning happens by accident, it feels. And roles like the grammarian help you learn. The feedback that they give to speakers tends to be similar, so you learn. Hearing people speak well and taking their time, you learn, and so it's almost by accident that you start to pick these things up. The other thing is I just didn't realise people being vulnerable is and you're sort of part of a mutual sort of group of people that are vulnerable together, and that feels pretty amazing. The only other time I've kind of felt it was I accidentally did a half marathon because my son said he needed, you know, asked me, and I thought, oh, well, that'd be nice to do a father-son thing. He consequently ran with his friends about an hour faster than me. And um he kindly put my name on my on my shirt, which meant as I was running past everyone yelled out, OJ was sensational. Which at the time I thought, oh God, I hate that everyone knows my name. And then over time I kind of got very used to it, you know, like, yeah, go, James, you know, so it's kind of like that in a way. Like it's everyone's in it together. And that's what I I had no idea that it would feel like that. And also, I suppose, is how young the people are generally, and how how many more females. Our numbers are kind of half ha. And I don't know why I didn't expect that, but in my mind's mind, I had thought it to be some sort of old fuddy-duddies sort of club where, you know, but it's not that at all. It's incredibly relevant today as it was a hundred years ago when it started. I feel more people than ever are getting a lot out of whether it's for their job or for an event that's coming up in their life. But I I find most of the people are trying to be part of this to help them to do presentations with their work or be better at their work, um, be able to be a better participant at work. Which is also another surprise. That I thought that it would be potentially more clicky. It's very constructive. A lot of people are doing it to get better at their particularly for work. And it's not for work to make them get higher jobs, it's so that they just are better at communicating their message or training or being a facilitator. It's not, you know, so I can be the CEO. It's just so I can, when I'm doing a presentation, I'm better at getting my message across.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Hmm. James, before you mentioned vulnerability, have you felt vulnerable yourself?

Table Topics terror: If Bulimba was an animal...

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Oh yeah. Yeah, like I forget what it's called where you do the like the 20-second talk. Holy moly. And you don't have any notice of what you're gonna get asked. Table topics? Table topics. That's and you know, I can't you're trying to guess what that question might be. Our table topic was Balimba last week. And one of the questions that was asked was, if balimba was an animal, what animal would it be? And did you have to answer that one? No, I didn't, thank goodness. But you meant to think about it, right? Yes. Well, I and I was thinking, holy money, I'd go with dog, you know, because everyone in Ballimba has a dog, you know, and everyone's walking their dog. Very good. But the lady said owl, because in a previous speech, someone had said, what are the things you like about Balimba? And the girl had said, Oh, I like walking, and you know, there's lots of bird life, and there's, you know, you can even see owls. That three speakers later was this lady, she's not even from Balimba, so it was bloody anyway. It was very holy moly. Every single time, I just I can't. And you know, instantly you always have that answer that pops into your head. But instantly it's normally something you you sort of second guess yourself, do I want to share that?

SPEAKER_02 12:11

You know, so I mean, one of the things about table topics is there really is no right or wrong answer. It's more about how well can you express yourself, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah,

Dropping the ums and ahs

SPEAKER_01 12:23

yeah, yeah, yeah. And and exactly, and trying to drop all of the filler words, the R and arms, and you know, trying to and it, you know, you just feel yourself taking pausing, thinking about how you're gonna answer, and trying to actively not use any of those those comfort words. It's a it's a it's a great experience. I I never ever thought I would get so much out of it. And and in the same in the same sort of way, like it's on a Tuesday night, and I often think, oh man, I don't want to do it, I don't want to go, I don't want to just sort of stay home and be lazy and I don't want to, I just want to, I don't want to do it tonight. And then you go there and then you get out of your car, and then you know, because it takes a group, and you know, you agree to do things, and I'm trying to take a more active role and can see some of the other people that started at the same time as me have basically finished their sort of step one and I'm going, oh my goodness gracious me. Come on, James, let's get going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Do

Sharing more than you would with strangers

SPEAKER_02 13:34

you find yourself, particularly with table topics, sharing more than you would be inclined to really share with a relative group of strangers?

SPEAKER_01 13:41

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. But because you learn that your first thing that comes into your head is often the best thing, you sort of retrain yourself to go with it. Well, that's what I've done anyway, Brendan. Is it took a little bit of practice, but I had to trust myself and go, if that's what pops in, then lean into that.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah. Have you ever come away from a meeting thinking, oh, I think I overshared there, maybe I shouldn't have uh shared that.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Um

Being 56 in a room with an 18-year-old

SPEAKER_01 14:16

I don't think I've gone away from a meeting where I haven't thought that. But does anything bad come of it? No, no, no, but I just think, Brendan, the other thing is I'm probably at the other end of the scale. Um, I mean, for the audience, which hopefully there's only three people who listen to this, but I'm 56. So I feel very much at the other end of the journey compared to most of the people that are in in the room. So I've again I'm just trying to lean into that that yeah, I might have a few more war stories to share than someone who's 20. There's one person in our group that's 18 for crying out loud. And I mean, you know, in in so many ways, I don't want to say I'm jealous, but I probably am just a slight envious. You know, that they've got their whole life ahead of them, you know, far east.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

I was gonna say by other end of journey, you mean that you're getting old and you have more life experience to draw upon. Is that what you're saying? Exactly, yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

You talked about being vulnerable before. In what way do you think you're vulnerable?

Have you felt vulnerable? War stories and oversharing

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Uh with my life experiences, more so than the nervousness of speaking, I'm not particularly concerned about that. I'm very much more tuned in to the fact that I might have overshared something about me, about my past, that maybe, you know, ordinarily people don't know or get to know. But I don't, as I said, I've had to lean into that, Brendan, because when I try when they ask the questions, I can think of an answer. You know, I still remember Anne, which is, you know, we have the same mother-in-law, at my wedding to Kat 30 plus years ago, Anne said to me, Oh, you know, you've always been a bit of a gambler. And she said, Well, you know, you won the lotto. Marrying her daughter. Marrying her daughter. No, I thought, well, what well, what am I? Chopped liver, you know, like, you know, what you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

That's right. Yeah, well, there you go. There's a bit of insight for you.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

That's right. That's right. So, but you know, it's funny. I don't know that too many people can specifically remember the words that their mother-in-law said. Yeah. But words do resonate with me a lot in what people say and how people behave.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

And, you know, I can recall in speeches that have been given, you know, one lady said that, you know, she liked walking down her streets and she'd take little clippings. And, you know, she must have said that in a speech four or five months ago. But it was that tiny little extra detail, which I then have tried to incorporate into when I'm speaking, to be looking, trying to add more colour, because then it's much more memorable when you, you know, you describe how windy a day was, or how rainy it was, or how dusty that road was, or how hot that bench seat was. Then there's I said these are Brendan the things I'm picking up accidentally, and it's just a very good process. It's just the process of Toastmasters and going over the same things again and again and again, and you just get better and better at that speaking piece with sharing information.

Noticing vulnerability in others

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Have you noticed vulnerability in others? And if so, do you think you're more attuned to that because of being vulnerable yourself in Toastmasters?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah, a little bit. I don't necessarily feel because they're younger, I don't or it's just who we are, I'm more inclined to be nude, probably, and just be straight. And I don't know if that's been my scenario always, but it probably has been a bit of the way I've operated. And as I've gotten older, I've got more transparent. I think younger people have less one-on-one communications than we did. They're more inclined to work from home, or they're more inclined to not participate in clubs. You and I I played a lot of sport when I was young. I think you did as well. It was just something we all kind of did, you know, corridor cricket or tennis or beach volleyball, whatever. And as a consequence, they're less familiar with being more transparent or vulnerable. Just trusting the world. Like, you know, you and I, I believe, have that trait in that, you know, the world really is our oyster. You know, that's how I feel. And I think you sort of lean into the world the same way.

My next role: Grammarian and Word of the Day - Retrospect

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Mm-hmm. 100%. So you've done some table topics. Have you been involved in any other segments in club meetings? Well, I'm about to be the grammarian.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

And what is a grammarian just for our audience? They, I believe, they introduce a word and they introduce the meaning of that word, and that word's encouraged to be used. And I think our word last week was retrospect. And so people were encouraged to use retrospect during table topics and during their speeches and during feedback.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

If I'd known that from the start, I could have introduced that in some of my earlier questions. I had you on back in January and I asked you this, but now that you've joined retrospectively, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Exactly, see? So yes, and then my job as a grammarian is to record when people use it. And then also highlight other use of of other words during the night that are interesting, I believe. And give feedback to the group on that.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

How many meetings did you go to before you joined Bullimba Toastmasters? Two, I think. Yeah, okay.

From almost closing to Super Club: 9 new members

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Two. The experience for me was the club Balimba had possibly five plus years ago, was close to closing down, which I was unaware of. And then it's been on a bit of a growth thing. And this year they they wanted to put it up for, I don't know, a super club or some club. And they you have to do all these things. And one of those things is get three new members or something. And I don't know. I just leaned into that journey. And of course, they've probably got nine new members now.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

So was you joining a prompt for them thinking we've now got James, we could turn this into a super club? We finally got a ripper.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

No, no, it definitely, it definitely wouldn't have been that. Yeah, look, it was just we all like to be part of something that and he just the way he posed it, I thought my character is that yeah, I I feel safe here. I'm not going to keep looking. What am I looking for? Let's make this work. And so that's that's kind of where I got to. After a couple, I thought, I'm only going to just delay and I want to get on with it. I want to get into it. And that so that's probably my character as well. I'm less inclined to kind of explore there's always going to be something better somewhere, but I'm kind of like, let's make this work, hey? Yeah, it sounds very positive. Yeah, that's my sort of outlook.

Outro and evaluations

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Thanks for listening to today's show. One of the key elements of Toastmasters is evaluations. This is how we grow and improve, both by encouraging comments for things we got right and points for improvement. We all learn and benefit from these evaluations, not just the person being evaluated. So any feedback in the comments is greatly appreciated. If you have a Toastmasters story you'd like to share, or would like to be on the show, I'd love to hear from you. You can reach me at Toastmastersworldtour at gmail.com. Thanks for listening.