Cold Open: Counting F-Bombs and C-Bombs

SPEAKER_00 0:00

In normal club meetings, anywhere, we have um and r counters for people to count our ums and our Rs and you know make sure that we're working on those. Uh we worked out very early on that we had to introduce a different type of counting for the inmates, and that was we had to count their F bombs and C bombs.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

It was just one right, it was just one or two.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

It was just one or two. We had one that dropped the C bomb something like 25 times in three minutes. And when we called him on it, he he just didn't even realise we said it that many times.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Hi,

Welcome to Toastmasters World Tour - Sydney, Australia

SPEAKER_03 0:38

my name's Brendan O'Sullivan, a Toastmaster from Brisbane, Australia. Welcome to my Toastmaster's World Tour podcast. Please join me as I travel virtually around the world and chat to Toastmasters from different countries and all walks of life. Let's explore. This episode we travel virtually to Sydney, Australia, famous for the beautiful Sydney Harbour, the starting point for the annual Sydney Dehobart yacht race, the Sydney Opera House, and the Coat Hanger, better known as the Sydney Harbour Bridge. I chat to Monique Tonner, who is not only the immediate past international director from Region 12, but also has a unique story of starting a Gavel club in a maximum security male prison seven years ago and going on to charter it. Welcome to the show, Monique. It's such a pleasure and an honor to have you on. Thank you so much. You're the outgoing international director from Region 12. So I'm in the presence of royalty, so I thought I'd wear my official Toastmasters shirt. Thought about it up my game a little bit. I had the pleasure of meeting you recently at the District 69 conference in Stanthorpe after you gave a keynote speech. Not long before that conference, I had learned about Gavel Clubs for kids because you have to be 18 to join Gavel Club. But listening to your keynote speech, I learned that Gavel Club doesn't necessarily mean it's for kids, it just means that it's not within the Toastmaster's agenda. You have a different type of Gavel Club that you're involved in. Could you tell me about that?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

We

How a 2019 Email Started a Prison Gavel Club

SPEAKER_00 2:24

do. So in 2019, I received a very unusual email from an officer at a correctional centre five hours west of Sydney where I live. And so I think what a great opportunity. They wanted us to go in and run a two-day speech class course for 10 minutes. And to be honest, that's all I thought it would be just a weekend in jail. And I would get some great stories for Friday night at the pub. But seven years later, I'm still going in there. We started a Gavel club. So a Gavel club is anyone who is under 18. So for the children, they can be a member of a Gavel club. Or if there's any circumstances that can stop people from actually chartering a Fun Toastmasters club. And so with this circumstance, because it's quite difficult for inmates to be online and participate in a lot of the alliance stuff, we could start a Gavel club with them. And so that's been going now for seven years.

Sniffer Dogs and Maximum Security Fears

SPEAKER_03 3:30

I imagine if I was asked to be involved in a prison gavel club, my concern would be that if I went to the prison, there could be a change of guards. And at the end I'd be trying to convince them to let me out that I'm not actually one of the prisoners. Maybe they'd ask me to show my passport to prove who I was. And if I showed them that, they might go, yes, that's just confirmation. You look like a criminal in that passport photo. Was that a concern for you?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Not really, no. So I was going into a maximum security male prison.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So it was very different. We have to have an officer with us the whole time. So we're not allowed out of line of sight of an officer. But there were times where just getting into the jail was hard. I remember that first weekend, we turned up to the jail and they were actually doing full searches. So my whole vehicle got pulled apart in search. We as Toastmasters had the sniffer dogs jumping up to see if we were carrying anything or trying to get anything explicit into the jail. So sometimes you get questioned before you even walk through the doors.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Goodness

From Speechcraft to Chartered Toastmasters Club

SPEAKER_03 4:41

me. So how often would you go?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

So we started off just doing speech clubs. Then we actually charted the gavel club.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Then COVID covered it. So during COVID, it was really hard to get out there and go into the jail. Then we actually charted it into a full Toastmasters club. And so we transitioned it from a gavel club into a full club. And there were some challenges with that. But there have been a couple of years where I've probably gone out there 10 times in the year in person, whereas otherwise I log in online for their meetings.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

I see. Just getting back to you mentioned that it was maximum security. So I guess they're the more serious offenders.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

They

What Maximum Security Really Means

SPEAKER_00 5:32

can be. A lot of the time, though, Ram, they get sentenced, the category that they get put in is based on time. So anything over four years, and they generally go into a maximum security facility. And then once they hit four years and under, they then start transitioning through minimum. So yes, it is generally the more serious crimes that get a longer time sentence.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

And how did you feel that first time walking in there?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Scatch,

First Time Walking In: Hollywood vs Reality

SPEAKER_00 5:59

nervous.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

It was one of those things where you don't know what to expect. I mean, I've seen the movies, right, right? And how Hollywood depicts it. I was honestly expecting orange jumpsuits, probably shackled with a tiny little pencil so that they couldn't stab anybody with it. I was really overimagining what gets sold through the movies, and it was a very different experience.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

You went in on your own?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

I had two other Toastmasters with me.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Okay. And how was it different to what you expected?

Inmates Trying to Make Us Feel Safe

SPEAKER_00 6:33

I think the inmates actually tried doing everything they could to make us feel safe. Oh. They could see that there was a little bit of nerves there. You know, they know they're in jail. They know what they've done, but they really did go out of their way to kind of make us feel okay, particularly during that first weekend. At no point after meeting them, did I think, oh, I've got to be really, really worried here that one of them might jump up and do something. Um, so they really tried to create an environment of safety for those of us that were going in there, that they were incredibly appreciative, that we were giving up our time to go in to teach them that these skills, that you know, public speaking of communication, but evaluation, that we really had a really great first weekend and first impression.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

So you said you received an email inviting you to go from the warden.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Was it the warden's idea or did the inmates drive the idea?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

It was

Bathurst Dogs, PTSD and How The Idea Started

SPEAKER_00 7:33

a little bit of both. So the idea actually came about because another jail in Bathurst runs a community dog program. So inmates are actually training dogs to be care dogs of ex-veterans with PTSD. So what they were doing in the community with these dogs is actually inmates were taking them out as they were training them, and they were having to be readjusted back into conversations with people in the community. And they were finding that there was a gap in how some of those inmates were reacting with the community and also in how they were presenting themselves with the dogs. So there was a comment made from one of the officers that, hey, maybe we should bring Toastmasters in to teach them speaking. And at the same time, some of the inmates were talking, and one of them had said, Oh, I've heard about this thing called Toastmasters. Would they be able to come in and help us? So it was both of them coming together almost at the same time with the same idea. I see.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

And so the first time you went, you had two other Toastmasters with you.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Did that continue? Is it usually you with a group of other Toastmasters?

Club Size: From 20 Members to 60 on a Friday Night

SPEAKER_00 8:47

It is usually a few, particularly if we're running recanned force for the inmates, because you need just the bandwidth of people to help. So it's usually me and two others. But if I'm going out there for a club meeting, sometimes I do go out there on my own. But obviously, I've always got an officer with me while I'm there.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Okay. And how many would be in the gavel club in the prison?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

So you had the gavel club with about the 20 members. We chartered into the pool club with 20 members, and we generally sit at about 25 members per club. I've been at meetings, though, where there's been nearly 60 inmates at the meeting.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Really? How many were at the first meeting?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Oh, the first meeting we probably had about 20.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Wow. So it wasn't hard to find people interested from the get-go.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

No, and as well, we found once it got started and word got out about it happening, it kind of generated its own interests. And they also did something which was kind of smart and a little bit funny. They started holding the meetings at about five hours of support from the Friday afternoon. And so that was kind of like their Friday night out. Because they were taken out of their pods down to the education room to have the meeting. So they kind of saw that as the Friday night excitement.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

So you've been involved in regular Toastmasters clubs. So you would have seen some people do their icebreakers or be new to Toastmasters. Did anything seem different about the prisoners that were new to just a regular someone joined Toastmasters for the first time?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Yeah,

Icebreakers That Make Tough Guys Cry

SPEAKER_00 10:23

well, I think there's a couple of things that stand out. We have this image or inmates that they're big and they're tough and they're mean. And one of the guys I remember stood up to give his icebreaker. And he stood there and looked at everyone and then just turned around and started crying. He was just so overwhelmed by having to stand up in front of people and talk. And you know, I really kind of thought, wow, I would never have expected that level of emotion to come out. And we do find with some of the guys that they do get quite emotional about the experience of talking in front of people. But then to the opposite extreme, we also sound very early on in the process that in normal club meetings, anywhere, we have um and r counters for people to count our ums and our Rs and you know make sure that we're working on those. Uh, we worked out very early on that we had to introduce a different type of counting for the inmates, and that was we had to count their F bombs and C bombs.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

It was just one it was just one or two.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

It was just one or two. We had one that drop the C bomb something like 25 times in three minutes. And when we called him on it, he he just didn't even realize we said it that many times. And so it kind of became a bit of a joke after that. But you know, the ums and ahs are not the problem with them, you're actually fine.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

We've got to focus on the different type of type of um and R.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

And that's now very much been embedded in the culture there that when we have the um R counter uh on the agenda, they actually worry that it means F bomb, C bomb count.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Oh,

Does the Ah-Counter Reduce Swearing?

SPEAKER_03 12:06

so you still call it the MR counter.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

We still call it the armor counter, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

The point of the um R counter is to work on that so that eventually you're trying to reduce the number of ums and ah's that you do. Has it reduced the profanity?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Uh look, yes, what it does, it makes them more aware of it. And and I think as well, what we've tried to get into their head is, you know, if they want to say that language around their own mates outside of the room, 100% go for it. Like that's their frogative. But we're trying to really foster that professional environment. So even though we are in a jail and they do want to tell their story and that, they need to also learn that when they are in outside environments, they do get a job, they are around different mentals of society. Some words aren't necessarily always appropriate. And so they also understand that we're not doing it to tell them you can't ever say that word. We're doing it to say you need to understand me in some environments. Those words are not appropriate.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Yeah, sure. You mentioned about one of them, we had this image of them being tough, and then next thing one of them is doing an icebreaker and they're crying.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

And it makes me think of a couple of things. One is that I guess we can all wear a bit of a mask to some extent. And then we're doing table topics and we find that we're divulging things that we know they're scaring a little bit. And I guess if they've got some some difficult stories to share, I guess maybe that's breaking down some of those masks, breaking down those barriers and sharing things that maybe they don't normally share.

Masks, Vulnerability and Oversharing

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think as well with them, because a lot of them live in the same environment, like they're all in the same pod, or there's a group of them that are together, they're seeing each other all the time as well. And so they do start to open up. And one of the things that did surprise me, probably after about three years of going out there, was also not just that they would talk and open up in front of each other, but that they were then also prepared to be quite vulnerable in their backgrounds and history with outsiders that don't necessarily know a lot about them or there's not that trust factor really build, was that they were jocking their guard and actually expressing themselves, you know, in front of strangers and people that they don't really know.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Have you observed any kind of therapeutic effect from this? Absolutely.

Therapeutic Effect and 10x Support

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Yeah, yeah. And a lot of the guys that they do it because they do get to share their stories, whether it's funny things that they've done or some of the more serious things, but it's also giving them a chance to be really encouraging of each other and help each other and support each other, which has been a really robbing thing to see. You see it thin folks on the outside, but it's almost tenfold on the inside how supportive they are of each other.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Oh wow. This must be amazing to witness.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

I have an idea for you, Monique.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

What's that?

SPEAKER_03 15:00

For for a new side hustle.

unknown 15:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

You're seeing these prisoners after they've been convicted and they're in jail and you're getting them to open up to things. I'm thinking maybe you could go and help the police when they're being convicted. Before they've gone to court to do some confessions, you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

I really didn't want to say, but she gave me a topic and it all came out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Getting used to the process.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

I was I was in the vault. Money had the key.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

So you said it was difficult to charter in the end, because even in a regular Toastmasters club, you have to have 20 or 21 members, I believe, and there's a process to go through. It had its extra challenges being a prisoner club, cabble club.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

We chartered

Chartering Challenges: Areas and No Internet

SPEAKER_00 15:47

it into a thin Toastmaster's club, and they had their five-year anniversary meeting in March. But that was the challenge as well, because you know, we had to charter it into an area, and some areas didn't want to be associated with a prison club. Some members had apprehension around chartering a club in a jail. But then there was also we used parkways, which is online. And so we had to find out a way to ensure we could print out the materials for them or get them the materials so that they could work on it without having internet access.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

They don't have internet access.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

They don't have internet access, no. So it was very much, you know, we had to just check off each box, each issue as it happened and work to it from there.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Okay. So they join an area, but can they be involved in area contests, that sort of thing?

Contests, Day Release and the COW Laptop

SPEAKER_00 16:37

So the first year they could because everything was still online after COVID. So they did compete the first time. We actually had one of the inmates make it to division level in the international contest. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, which which was fantastic. But then once everything went back face to face, that thing couldn't continue because we couldn't get them daily to get into the contest.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

It could be extra motivation. They might have an escape plan going on. But what's interesting about what you just said is that they're not allowed normally to get internet access, but what they were granted an exception for the contests. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yeah, so what happens is they can access online, well, they can't access online. An officer can access online. So even with pub meetings, I can tease in to the meeting. So they have kind of like a laptop setup that's walked up. It's called um, so you kind of like this big box and they call it the cow. And because everything's locked away, so the inmates can't actually access the internet. So the officer has to log in for them, and then there's a cow with just a little camera sticking up out of the cow.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Um I'm gonna see that out.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

It's a very strange, very strange setup. So that's how we got them into the contest, and it's also how I can log into cog meetings.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

Do you have a photo of the cow?

SPEAKER_00 18:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

No. I could attempt to draw something, but it would look really bad.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Let's go with the drawing. So you mentioned one of them got to division, did you say?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Division.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Was that a really powerful personal story type thing?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Or

The Revolving Door: Division Final Speech

SPEAKER_00 18:19

it was. It was it was called the revolving door, and he actually did a speech on how and why so many inmates end up back in jail after their release. Oh, wow. And you know, from you know, how they take it through the system and the system that they end up coming back through the revolving door multiple times.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Not your everyday speech.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah, not not a speech you hear every day, you know.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

Unique insights that most of us wouldn't have, I'd imagine.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

So I'm sure that would have been it also gave insights into things that you don't even think about. Um I think that's one of the things that, you know, I never defend them because they did do something wrong to go into jail. Sure. Yeah, sure. But but you do hear glimpses and details that perhaps make you think of things in a different way when you hear some of their stories.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

And I guess that wasn't recorded. There's no recording of that anywhere that speaks.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

I I actually can't remember. I do know one of his practice sessions was recorded when he practiced it, but I don't actually think the division contest was not.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

So you said it was a bit therapeutic, the process of being involved in the scabbard club. Have you seen it transform them at all?

Transformation: The Naughty Kid Who Became President

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Some of them, yes. There's actually one inmate and he's still there. I'd known him basically the whole seven years that I've been going out there. And I remember first time I met him, and I actually said to the officer, I don't want him coming back. He toastmastered it's he was just it wasn't that he did anything overly wrong. He was just like the naughty kid at the back of the classroom that was just causing fog lungs and just like you know eggy things on, and it just wasn't comfortable. I was like, I don't like that kid, just don't let him come back. And I'm quite dismissive of it. And he didn't come back for about two years. And then I was at a COVID meeting about two years later, and this inmate walks up to me and he's like, I bet you don't remember me. I'm like, 100% I remember you. You're back. But he was gone on, he's been COB president, he helps out all the time. He's completely on board and supports the program, really supports the inmates. And, you know, there was just that huge change in him. So he went away for two years, but when he came back and he started getting really involved and seeing what it was doing for other inmates and what it was doing for him, he's just been such a huge supporter. And so that's just been one circumstance of such a turnaround from someone that I was quite tough to say, I never want to see him again. Now I'm like, he's such an advocate for Toastmasters in the jail.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

Must be amazing seeing that transformation, people and trying to bring out the best in them.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

I don't know a lot about the prison system, but sometimes their cases are reviewed, aren't they? I mean, whether they should get parole, that sort of thing. Yeah. Have you ever been asked for any input in that?

Providing References for Sentencing

SPEAKER_00 21:16

I have. So there's not so much in whether they get parole, but there have been a couple of times where we've had inmates that aren't sentenced. And so they've either pleaded guilty or they've been found guilty. They've gone through that process of reports, but they haven't yet been sentenced. And so there have been times where I've been asked to provide a reference to say they've been coming to Toastmasters, they've contributed, this is what they've done. Which is an interesting process because a lot of the time when I provide a reference, I actually also have to, where they've pleaded guilty, state that I've read their statement of agreed facts. So I actually have to then know everything about their case.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

Which you wouldn't normally do, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Know. Unless the inmate divulges that in a speech or something, we usually, you know, we don't get given a list of what they're in for. So the very first time I didn't realize that was part of the process. So I received this statement of the great facts and it was right, oh, I've now got to read it and acknowledge that I know what they've done. Whereas now an inmate does ask me to be a part of that process and provide a reference. My first conversation with them is, do you want me to know what you've done? Do you want to have a conversation with any beforehand so that I'm not reading it the first time in black and white? No.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

And when you are asked to give your opinion, do they ask you what the ums and r count was?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

They haven't asked me that question yet. That might come up in a future case.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

The meetings themselves, then, we've talked about the ums and r counts, but they run like a regular Toastmasters meeting. They

Inside a Prison Meeting: Table Topics and Evaluations

SPEAKER_03 22:53

do.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yep. So they do table topics, they do speeches, evaluations, and you know, sometimes they have smaller assignments, but it runs exactly like a normal Toastmasters meeting does.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Does it ever get rowdy or nearly come to blows?

SPEAKER_00 23:06

You said this and No, look, sometimes they do just laugh way too much, though, because it does happen when someone will say something or there'll be a reference back to a free dish joke, and um, you know, we're kind of gonna go, okay, guys, let's let's calm down again and let's get back on track. It's like kindergartners sometimes. You've got to go, all right, we've had our fun. Now let's bring it back. But no, I mean, evaluations were the hardest part for them to get their head around. Oh yeah. Because just that curve can you give you feedback to your peers, they're used to giving feedback with their fix. That's how they don't let. So having to, you know, get them to use their words to give me that was a very different concept for some of them.

Age Range and Motivation

SPEAKER_03 23:52

What would be the age range, Monique?

SPEAKER_00 23:56

The age range, look, the youngest we've probably had countering to bed out to earn 21.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

And then we've had a call in their 60s. The majority, I would say, are in their 30s and 40s.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Okay. Yeah, I've always thought that there's a problem with age. People in their 30s and 40s, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Having a dick at all your 30 and 40 years.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Which which was a surprise to me when I started going out. I I don't know why I I assumed that it would be either really young or, you know, older. But just the amount of people in that age practice, I was like, oh wow. And then hearing stories and, you know, if they're fiend multiple times or it's just a one-off. It's yeah, it was very different.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

It was a male prison, right? It was a male prison, yeah. Have you ever thought of doing one in a female prison?

A Women's Prison Club Next?

SPEAKER_00 24:50

I would. We're not being asked yet. But I think it would be so worthwhile. I mean, I would love to see us in as many jails as we could be. Um just because I think the skills that are so worthwhile for when they get out. They're gonna have to go for job interviews. And so those incompatient speaking skills are just so vital for them to get a job.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Giving feedback that are to family members, to, you know, anyone they work with is a skill that's needed. So there's certain skills I see as being beneficial for their release.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Yeah. So you've clearly found it quite rewarding in your own sort of journey.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Massively, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Obviously, as you said, they're in there for doing something wrong, and that could be quite an emotive sort of topic, particularly if someone's been a victim of crime, that sort of thing. Have you had any kind of negative feedback about helping them?

Recidivism and Reducing Re-Offending

SPEAKER_00 25:42

A little bit, not a lot. I think one of the things that I do always try to focus on with it is the R helping them to try not to re-offend when they get out. Recidivism's high, it's something like 50 or 60%, I think, where they can end up back in jail. And so, you know, we're really trying to look at, okay, well, what skills do they need and how does this help them? Because at the end of the day, they will be released. The life sentences, there's not a lot of inmates in there for life. So, you know, they will get out, they'll next door to somebody, and we want to make sure they have the best shot that they can to set up a successful life when they get out.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

And even as something as simple as as you put it of getting feedback with your words and not your fists, it's gotta be a win.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

So well done, you're doing such good work.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Thank you. Thank you. I don't do it alone. I think I've got other Toastmasters that come in and help me. And I think we all find it very rewarding that we get to go in and do what we do.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

So, what got you into Toastmasters in the first place, Malik?

Monique's Own Toastmasters Journey

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Two things. Firstly, I got my very first job managing a team, and I had to stand up in meetings and talk. And I found out I knew what I wanted to say, but I just out of like complete bimbo trying to get it out. Nothing made sense. And so my manager pulled me aside and said, Enique, I think you really need to go to Toastmasters to learn how to do this. I didn't listen. I was in my mid-20s. I thought I knew everything.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

As we all did.

unknown 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

So I didn't listen to it. But then about 18 months later, I would study my Masters of Business Administration. I had to get up and give a presentation in front of a room of about 17 people. I spoke so quietly, not even the front row heard me. And I'd walked so far back and it had tricked into the curtain at the back of the room. And someone in the audience came up to me afterwards and said, You should probably go to Toastermasters. So I took that as a bit of a sign and just googled in it and it hadn't looked better.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Well, and so you've gone from joining and then all the way to the top to becoming international director from Region 12. Yeah. When did that come up on your radar?

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Oh,

Becoming International Director from Region 12

SPEAKER_00 28:00

it there wasn't any one specific moment where I was like, I want to do that. Because when you join Toastmasters, you're not joining to be an international director one day. You're joining to learn skills. And I think that's one of the great things about Toastmasters, there's so many different layers and levels and opportunities that you can constantly develop different soft skills and skill sets along the way. So I kind of feel like I've just taken every opportunity to take on a new role. I, you know, was at the club, then I did area director, division director, trio. And after I was district director, the next thing was was that something I want to consider doing and any better up the international sphere of the organization, which three years ago I put in a nomination, and two years ago I was elected.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Are you glad you did it?

SPEAKER_00 28:49

I have invomed it. I've loved I say I've loved almost every minute of it. We're in a part of the world where a lot of my calls started at 1 a.m. So uh the time zone thing I got a bit frustrated with. But aside from that, it's been such a rewarding experience to know that you're part of something that's helping them this worldwide.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Why have you loved it so much?

SPEAKER_00 29:17

I think just the opportunities it's given me. I've been able to work with other international directors from all around the world. I've been able to see different perspectives and get different ideas and in different sounding boards that you don't normally consider. I think sometimes we get so stuck in what we know and our own perception that it's been such an amazing opportunity to step outside of that and see how things are done in other areas.

Handover from Ben McCormick

SPEAKER_03 29:44

Did you get a handover from Ben McCormick?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Uh look, Ben and I had a conversation actually over in Anaheim. And so we had a bit of a talk about the region and what was going on. And then Ben said to me, Monique, I'm not going to constantly contact you. He said, if you want to have a chat find me, otherwise enjoy your two years.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

And I think, you know, we that now being at the end of my two years and having Denise now coming on board. I completely get that because no two people are going to have the same experience. And so it's more just have fun. If you want to have a conversation or if you're frustrated, absolutely pick up the phone, but enjoy the two years that you're going to have.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

So did he give you any advice in Anaheim about the role?

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Not really. No. It was more on, you know, what to expect and just enjoy the light. It goes very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Okay. And did you ever take him up and call him and ask advice along the way?

SPEAKER_00 30:44

We had a couple of polls over the two years, but none of us explicitly asking for specific advice. It was more checking in on the districts that he's in. If I heard of anything going on and picked up the phone and said, Do you know anything? What's happening? The other other lines, no, it was more a chat rather than I need help.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

And Denise is now the new international director from Region 12. Yes. Did you do a handover for her?

Handover to Denise and Advice for New IDs

SPEAKER_00 31:15

So actually, what they did a little bit differently this time is in Vancouver, there was actually about an hour handover setup, a formal kind of discussion with the outgoing international director, the incoming international director, and the region advisor that's supporting the districts in the region. Uh-huh. So there was a bit more of a formalized process physically.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

And what sort of advice did you give Denise?

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Pretty much exactly the same. Enjoy it. Two years goes very quickly. I was actually amazed at how fast the time has gone. It's one of those things, you've got to take it and you bring your own personality to it.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Would you do anything differently if you have your time again?

SPEAKER_00 32:00

No. No, I've absolutely loved it. I contributed what I could. And I think it's just it's given me so much more of a perspective that I can now bring back to my own district and my own clubs to help us be successful in the future.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

We had a bit of a chat before you came on, and I mentioned how I was going to introduce you as the international director for Region 12, and you corrected me saying it's not for Region 12, it's from Region 12. Do you want to expand upon that a little bit?

From Region 12 vs For Region 12

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Yeah. So when we get elected to the board, we're from a region, but we're not for the region. So the board of directors has 14 international directors, one from each region around the world. So we have seven regions in the North Americas and seven regions outside of North America. And so there's one person from each of those regions that sit on the board. But your region aren't your constituents. So you're not there fighting the doors for, you know, I'm not sitting on the board going, this will work in Australia, and Australia needs this, or the or New Zealand needs this. We're there giving our perspective, but we're for the members internationally. And so whenever we make a decision or we go, we have to vote on what's best for the organization as a whole, even though we do give our perspectives on how that may impact our own region that we're from.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

I wasn't too pleased to hear that. I kind of like the idea of saying, geez, I really hate those region 11 people and the region equal our our neighbors, but a rivalry. Sounds too sweet. It's all very united, isn't it? So basically what you're saying is we're one big happy family.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

We are, we are, yes, yes. But look, we we also do have the opportunity on the board to put forward our thoughts and opinions and you know, and to persuade each other that, hey, that may not work or that that may be a little bit different somewhere else. So you do have the opportunity, but when you do vote, you take into account what's best for our members worldwide.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Sure. That's beautiful. It's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Yeah, yeah. So we're we're from, we're not for.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Okay. I've got it. Okay. So now that you're the outgoing international director from Region 12, I guess that's a role in itself. A bit like when you pass president of a club, you have an actual role in support, do you?

What's Next: Contests and Parliamentarian Role

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Not really. No. So I'm almost back to being a member. A member that can, you know, compete in contests again. I've actually not competed in nearly 12 years in contests.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

And you're going to?

SPEAKER_00 34:39

I am actually in my first club contest tomorrow night.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Well table topics tomorrow night.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Maybe a few random questions here might have been a bit of a warm-up. It wasn't as weird as the question Brendan asked me.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

So yes, that all starts for me. All right, which is very exciting.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

So when are we going to be seeing you, Monique, as international president?

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Look, I definitely think I'm going to take some time off to recover, recuperate, and re-energize myself before I consider moving further up the ladder.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Okay. So what's next for you? Competitions, basically.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Yeah, so I really want to campaign and, you know, kind of just give it a try again. And I've also been asked this year to be parliamentarian for my district.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

So I'll be stepping in and reclining some of my parliamentary skills in that role.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Okay, wonderful. Is there anything else you'd like to add today, Monique?

SPEAKER_00 35:37

I don't think so. No. No. I think it's been fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Thank you so much for coming on the show, Monique. It's been such a pleasure and such an honour.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Thanks. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Outro and Call for Feedback

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Thanks for listening to today's show. One of the key elements of Toastmasters is evaluations. This is how we grow and improve, both by encouraging comments for things we've got right and points for improvement. We all learn and benefit from these evaluations, not just the person being evaluated. So any feedback in the comments is greatly appreciated. If you have a Toastmaster story you'd like to share or would like to be on the show, I'd love to hear from you. You can reach me at Toastmastersworld tour at gmail.com. Thanks for listening.